Does God exist?

[Crimson Army]

Originally Posted by Studku

If we stared from Adam and eve why so many different races?

Evolution. The original humans were almost assuredly black and as they migrated north their skin paled as they no longer needed protection from the tropical sun and to take in more vitamin D.

[Dr. Esquire]

Originally Posted by Crimson Army

I'm not an atheist, but I can answer this one. Simply from 3 places:

1. Genetics - we are predisposed through evolution to avoid certain harmful behaviors, e.g. incest, which leads to birth defects. On the flip side, we are disposed to do good things as well, like caring for our children, helping our relatives, etc. These traits have proved beneficial to us throughout time and thus are ingrained in our psyche instinctively.

2. Culture - Many of our ideas of right and wrong are taught to us from a young age (oftentimes through religion). we are either told explicitly or else learn through watching the behavior and rewards/repercussions of others.

3. Reason - The great thing about being human is our capability to reason. We can think about our actions and what the results of them will be, and use this to avoid wrong, either through the fear of punishment or else just a basic understanding that it's a bad thing to do. You weigh the outcomes and make the best decision.

Obviously this is a simplification, but the point remains.

A great example I read once was that a Christian won't rob a bank because the Bible says theft is wrong and he fears going to hell for his sins. An atheist won't rob a bank because it's a dick thing to do.

Furthermore, Chinese philosophy is different from Western religion, in that it teaches that "right" and "wrong" are human connotations on actions and don't exist in the natural world. Yet still, theft, rape, murder, etc., are crimes there.

Basically what I'm getting at is that it's a fallacy to believe that right and wrong don't exist without a belief in God. There are plenty of atheists out there who prove otherwise, as do plenty of bad Christians. Here's an interesting article about how atheists make up less than 1% of the prison population, while Christians make up 75%.

Regardless of whether a man is atheist or Christian he will still have the spirit of Christ which speaks to a his spirit. You can call it your conscious I prefer to call it the "Spirit of Christ". Regardless of where a man is born; whether be in a predominantly Muslim, or Hindu community he will still have this God given right to know what is right from wrong.

[Studku]

Originally Posted by Crimson Army

Evolution. The original humans were almost assuredly black and as they migrated north their skin paled as they no longer needed protection from the tropical sun and to take in more vitamin D.

I know that I'm asking esquire tho

[A-Rob]

God? Yes. Jesus as the son of god? Yes, but I understand how many do not.

Almost every religion believes in a higher power. Even people who are "spiritual" rather than religious believe in a higher power

To me, that is god. He is to everyone what they need to believe he is. Is he black? Yellow? White? In the clouds and rain? You bet. He is all those things.

I truly believe that our limited brain function cannot begin to fathom how he works and who he is.

[A-Rob]

Read the book the shack. It was pretty good at explaining how I feel about the perception of god.

[jerk]

Originally Posted by Studku

I know that I'm asking esquire tho

I'll answer on his behalf: Microevolution.

[gthejayhawk]

To think that you can believe in a multitude of gods and still make it to heaven, aka "COEXIST", or to believe in/on a Mother Nature are all deceptions used by Satan. These ideals are all lies wrapped around a kernel of truth. The bible says "There in no other name under heaven, given amongst men, by which we must be saved". It also says that the law of God is written on every mans heart. God created us to worship, but he gives man the choice of who or what he wants to worship.

[Dr. Esquire]

Originally Posted by Studku

If we stared from Adam and eve why so many different races?

While black people may not like this origin I think they are descendants of Cain. Genesis 4: 15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16 ¶And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

While Cain was a bad dude that does not mean his descendants are. I also believe God may have given a mark on people from the Towel of Babel.

[Dr. Esquire]

Originally Posted by Crimson Army

Evolution. The original humans were almost assuredly black and as they migrated north their skin paled as they no longer needed protection from the tropical sun and to take in more vitamin D.

This kind of confuses me. So why have all black peoples skin not "paled" then?

[Crimson Army]

Originally Posted by Dr. Esquire

This kind of confuses me. So why have all black peoples skin not "paled" then?

Because evolution takes a very long time. Given enough time, and assuming we don't eliminate races through interbreeding, this would happen to black people in northern climates, just as white people in the tropics would develop darker skin. Of course there is one school of thought that says humans have retarded the evolutionary process through science and technology, but that's another debate entirely.

[Crimson Army]

Originally Posted by gthejayhawk

To think that you can believe in a multitude of gods and still make it to heaven, aka "COEXIST", or to believe in/on a Mother Nature are all deceptions used by Satan. These ideals are all lies wrapped around a kernel of truth. The bible says "There in no other name under heaven, given amongst men, by which we must be saved". It also says that the law of God is written on every mans heart. God created us to worship, but he gives man the choice of who or what he wants to worship.

But how do you know the Bible is correct and your God the right one? And please don't say because the Bible says so, that's circular reasoning.

[gthejayhawk]

Believe one, believe none, or believe all of them. They all require an element of faith.

[Crimson Army]

Originally Posted by gthejayhawk

Believe one, believe none, or believe all of them. They all require an element of faith.

+1

[Dr. Esquire]

Originally Posted by Crimson Army

But how do you know the Bible is correct and your God the right one? And please don't say because the Bible says so, that's circular reasoning.

Let me ask you this. From what I can gather you seem to believe in some type of higher power, how do you know this exists? I think the only way to know is too test it out. You have to begin with a seed of faith or hope. Then you must test this new found faith or hope. You should follow it, live by it. If you feel something different this faith will continue to expound until you have a perfect faith in that thing. For me it was realizing the scriptures were true, praying about it and feeling something new; something I had never felt before, and then living it. This happened to me when I was 19 and it changed my life. I realized that I was in need of life changes and a lot of repentance. My life is on a whole new level now that Christ and Heavenly Father in life. Does this mean that life doesn't suck from time to time, no. When it does though I have something to rely on to help me through my trials.

[carneso1985]

Originally Posted by Dr. Esquire

Let me ask you this. From what I can gather you seem to believe in some type of higher power, how do you know this exists? I think the only way to know is too test it out. You have to begin with a seed of faith or hope. Then you must test this new found faith or hope. You should follow it, live by it. If you feel something different this faith will continue to expound until you have a perfect faith in that thing. For me it was realizing the scriptures were true, praying about it and feeling something new; something I had never felt before, and then living it. This happened to me when I was 19 and it changed my life. I realized that I was in need of life changes and a lot of repentance. My life is on a whole new level now that Christ and Heavenly Father in life. Does this mean that life doesn't suck from time to time, no. When it does though I have something to rely on to help me through my trials.

I am bummed I found this thread so late, but I definitely have a lot of input. Dr. Esquire - I really respect the parts of your testimony on here. You are very respectful, and obviously God has changed your life in a big way. I am a Christian also, and while I grew up in the church and accepted Christ at a young age, I feel His presence in the same way.

I would like to caution you though in saying things like "I read an article somewhere that says more and more scientists are leaving Darwinism as evidence presents itself to the contrary." Or that many scientists have problems with carbon dating. I am sure you do not mean to be misleading here, but you are spreading misinformation. It is true that there are SOME scientists who disagree with those things, but here's the thing, they aren't scientists in relevant fields. They don't have peer reviewed research that disproves evolution OR carbon dating. They may have changed their opinions, but that really doesn't mean anything in the scientific community without peer reviewed data backing them up.

I do find it concerning that evolution and the age of the earth come up so fast when discussing whether or not there is a god. The reason that happens is because there are so many Christians who say that science is wrong, because the bible says so, and there are so many non-Christians who say the bible is wrong, because science says so. Both are fallacies, and everyone needs to stop drawing that hard line.

I encourage everyone to read a book by Denis O. Lamereax called Evolutionary Creation. Lamereax is a professor of Science and Religion at the University of Alberta, and he holds three earned doctoral degrees in Dentistry, Theology, and Biology. He is fairly uniquely suited to talk about a lot of these issues of Religion and Science. I think his book really sums up how we should "Love the Lord our God with all our Hearts, Souls, and Minds". When we are reading the bible without looking into the science of the world around us, we are basically ignoring the command to love the Lord with our Minds.

The bible is NOT a scientific document. I know a lot of the conclusions that can come from that are very difficult for Christians in today's culture to come to terms with, and that is okay to some extent. However, it is NOT okay for us, as Christians, to keep saying that scientists agree with our warped view of science through our "Bible Glasses". They don't. That is a fact.

Everything that Crimson Army said about evolution and dating methods is 100% true. He also had a great point that scientists are still discovering more and more about evolution. It isn't a cut and dry, this is exactly what happened, kind of theory. Darwin didn't have everything right. However, macro-evolution is a fact. All scientific evidence points to it. If you talk to scientists with doctorates in Biology, Geology, Anthropology, or any number of other related disciplines, they will tell you that.

I do believe that God exists. I believe that Jesus was his son, and that He died on the cross for our sins, rising again on the third day. However, that is a belief. Science cannot prove or disprove that belief, though I do think that studying the world around me is a method of worshiping the One I believe created it.

[Dr. Esquire]

Originally Posted by carneso1985

I am bummed I found this thread so late, but I definitely have a lot of input. Dr. Esquire - I really respect the parts of your testimony on here. You are very respectful, and obviously God has changed your life in a big way. I am a Christian also, and while I grew up in the church and accepted Christ at a young age, I feel His presence in the same way.

I would like to caution you though in saying things like "I read an article somewhere that says more and more scientists are leaving Darwinism as evidence presents itself to the contrary." Or that many scientists have problems with carbon dating. I am sure you do not mean to be misleading here, but you are spreading misinformation. It is true that there are SOME scientists who disagree with those things, but here's the thing, they aren't scientists in relevant fields. They don't have peer reviewed research that disproves evolution OR carbon dating. They may have changed their opinions, but that really doesn't mean anything in the scientific community without peer reviewed data backing them up.

I do find it concerning that evolution and the age of the earth come up so fast when discussing whether or not there is a god. The reason that happens is because there are so many Christians who say that science is wrong, because the bible says so, and there are so many non-Christians who say the bible is wrong, because science says so. Both are fallacies, and everyone needs to stop drawing that hard line.

I encourage everyone to read a book by Denis O. Lamereax called Evolutionary Creation. Lamereax is a professor of Science and Religion at the University of Alberta, and he holds three earned doctoral degrees in Dentistry, Theology, and Biology. He is fairly uniquely suited to talk about a lot of these issues of Religion and Science. I think his book really sums up how we should "Love the Lord our God with all our Hearts, Souls, and Minds". When we are reading the bible without looking into the science of the world around us, we are basically ignoring the command to love the Lord with our Minds.

The bible is NOT a scientific document. I know a lot of the conclusions that can come from that are very difficult for Christians in today's culture to come to terms with, and that is okay to some extent. However, it is NOT okay for us, as Christians, to keep saying that scientists agree with our warped view of science through our "Bible Glasses". They don't. That is a fact.

Everything that Crimson Army said about evolution and dating methods is 100% true. He also had a great point that scientists are still discovering more and more about evolution. It isn't a cut and dry, this is exactly what happened, kind of theory. Darwin didn't have everything right. However, macro-evolution is a fact. All scientific evidence points to it. If you talk to scientists with doctorates in Biology, Geology, Anthropology, or any number of other related disciplines, they will tell you that.

I do believe that God exists. I believe that Jesus was his son, and that He died on the cross for our sins, rising again on the third day. However, that is a belief. Science cannot prove or disprove that belief, though I do think that studying the world around me is a method of worshiping the One I believe created it.

Science to me is just man's way of explaining what God has created. God is the greatest of all scientists.

[carneso1985]

Originally Posted by Dr. Esquire

Science to me is just man's way of explaining what God has created. God is the greatest of all scientists.

Agreed, God is the greatest of all scientists, because he created the world, and science is the study of that creation. However, it isn't "man's way of explaining what God has created." It is man studying the inner workings and the complexities of what God created. A big difference, because your definition seems to completely discount science. Scientists grow a deeper appreciation for the natural world, whether they believe in a creator or not, so why wouldn't you be interested in growing that appreciation of God's creation?

Not only is studying the sciences a great way to worship God, but you seem to be discounting all the discoveries science has made. At least it makes clear that your arguments against evolution are not science based at all, they are purely from your place of discounting science for "religious" reasons. Not that I think you aren't religious, but I don't think being religious at all requires discounting science.

[Dr. Esquire]

Originally Posted by carneso1985

Agreed, God is the greatest of all scientists, because he created the world, and science is the study of that creation. However, it isn't "man's way of explaining what God has created." It is man studying the inner workings and the complexities of what God created. A big difference, because your definition seems to completely discount science. Scientists grow a deeper appreciation for the natural world, whether they believe in a creator or not, so why wouldn't you be interested in growing that appreciation of God's creation?

Not only is studying the sciences a great way to worship God, but you seem to be discounting all the discoveries science has made. At least it makes clear that your arguments against evolution are not science based at all, they are purely from your place of discounting science for "religious" reasons. Not that I think you aren't religious, but I don't think being religious at all requires discounting science.

Science has made discoveries that man may not have understood. Do you think a scientist has made a discovery that God did not understand? God knows all and comprehends all. Thus scientists are just trying to explain the workings of our Heavenly Father.

[carneso1985]

Originally Posted by Dr. Esquire

Science has made discoveries that man may not have understood. Do you think a scientist has made a discovery that God did not understand? God knows all and comprehends all. Thus scientists are just trying to explain the workings of our Heavenly Father.

Obviously scientists haven't made a discovery that God doesn't understand. You and I both believe in an omniscient God. What I am saying is that scientists are studying God's creation, and learning about its inner-workings. You seem to be saying that all those scientists are wrong about what they are observing when it comes to evolution. That means you are discounting science, and I am asking why? When scientists observe and study nature, and they learn about it's inner workings, you are saying they are wrong. What is your basis for that? Why are you discounting their profession?

[sbruning29]

God is real and he definitely exists. But esquire, why do you say there is no hell. Do you believe in purgatory? If you deny God he is right in front of you, chances are good that you will go to hell. Now, i am not God, so He will judge, not me!

Yes, God made us.

[Rockchalk2010]

I'm sad that I'm late to the party. I rarely wander out of the recruiting forum, and yesterday I started branching out. I gotta say I my beliefs are most closely related to my favorite posted CalHawk. Although I think he's very even handed, I'm not normally quite as gracious. I was pretty religious when I was much younger in a not very religious household, but about 13 I started having doubts, and by about 14 I was full on Atheist. I don't get a chance to practice my Atheism very much, but if anyone wants to argue, I'm always going to be game. I might throw a few things out there and see if I can get some sucker to bite. I think it will make this conversation a little more interesting. I'll try to make a few points, pick one and address it individually.

1. If God is so great, how come the commandments are so terrible? Really? If you are on the other side of the argument, tell me that you think these are perfect and immaculate and you couldn't come up with one (or 50) better than "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy". These are Gods perfect laws that tell us how to live? How about instead of "Thou shant take the Lords name in Vein" maybe something about "Don't rape women or children"- that seems like it should be covered. Any one reading this could re-write these and make them much better with about 4 minutes of thought.

Side note, kind of related. I found this a few months ago. Give it a read. I think Conservative Penn Jilette might be right on. And entertaining.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...nts/50978982/1

[Rockchalk2010]

2. For the literal bible believers: Jews came up with the stories in the bible, and almost all of them believed then, as they almost all believe now, that these are made up stories of how to live, and shouldn’t be taken literally. I am saying that one Adam and one Eve didn’t exist and that it is a little silly to believe otherwise, and the belief that they lived 6000 yrs ago seems a little far-fetched for thinking people.

[Rockchalk2010]

This is off the top of my head, but I think it is all correct. Don't crucify me if I make a small error. (That is a joke.)
4. Jesus (existed and) had one set of last words. He knew what they were, and God knew what he said right before he died. They were pretty important, like the last thing he gave to us from his mortal body. Mathew, Mark Luke and John (nor the people who wrote the books of MML&J) were not there when he was on the cross dying. All the info had to come divinely from God directly after the fact. Still even though God told the writers of the books exactly what Jesus said, they couldn’t get it right. And not only that, but not even close. In Matt, he said “My God, My God why have you forsaken me?” looks up and dies. In Mark and Luke, he says “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do” (but slightly different in each) right before he dies. In John written more than 100 years after he died, Jesus’ last words on the Cross were “It is finished”. It is a fact that Jesus lived, and he did have one last set of words, but somehow God couldn’t tell the writers what it was. It might have been one of these three things, or something else completely. The New Testament is written purely from this divine inspiration, because the writers of the books weren’t there for his birth or virtually any of his life. And they were written with a bit of an agenda and for their own self-serving interest. I, for one, am pretty suspicious.

[Rockchalk2010]

I think I know what I want to say with this next point, but I think I’m going to have a hard time expressing it. I guess my next point comes from the sciences and mathamatics, but I just undercut my knowledge in mathamatics in proving I don't know what comes after 2 (above).
3. Some say God created everything like science and mathematics, and without him, science wouldn’t be here, but I believe that if you have one item and you have another item that would make two, and that is an immutable fact weather or not God existed. There is no way for that not to be true. If God wanted to change that he couldn’t change 1+1=2 in its simplest form. It is a natural fact outside the realm of God. My point is not everything comes from Him (or Her). Things like physics, biology, astronomy and chemestry are natual processes and could and do function outside of God. The all could have and did exist before God.